That would be missing the point, actually. Anger solves no problems. Solutions to problems solve problems. Hotheads be damned. Hotheads like Ikngrr, for example who sees dudes everywhere it looks, and then projects his ignorance in accusations against others.
@ClaraListensprechen4 okay, not wanting to escalate here, but it seems to me that you haven't realized you haven't provided a solution at all. Yet you are arguing as if you have clearly done so. Apart from the arguments the others have already provided, of course.
@ClaraListensprechen4 @aintasenatorson You: How DARE those uppity people have a problem with systemic oppression! I'm so superior because I'm not being oppressed! See how superior I am?
Weel, that's no surprise. Hotheads have a problem with everything because they get their jollies from getting hot over even small things, and that's exactly what makes them the biggest suckers for the outrage-du-jour. They won't do a damn thing about any of it but they'll get their rocks off.
@CloudyMrs Mrs. Cloudy, what I said about potatoes makes no sense to people who don't know how to grow potatoes, and I've successfully done this in public housing...yet there are people in this thread that claim I offered no solution at all.
At least you asked for more information, so kudos to you.
Tomatoes can be grown in pots/planters, and in public housing too. You just don't go around digging up lawn that doesn't belong to you, and that escapes this bunch too.
HOW IT's DONE without spending a penny: rake up all fall leaves into the patch where you want to grow them (a 3-foot-high layer at least), let the leaves decompose over winter, then in spring put seed potatoes under the decomposed leaves right on top of the lawn. They'll do the rest and you don't have to do actual digging to harvest them.
To the rest of this gang, you may commence to feel foolish because you were. Carry on.
@ClaraListensprechen4 you're hilarious. No crop could survive someone popping in past to kill growing plants. Seriously chum. You're on the wrong side here. Plants are plants are plants. They all need basically the same things. One of the things they don't need is bleach.
@ClaraListensprechen4 🤣🤣🤣 anyone can grow anything if the guy with the bleach stays home. The point is that no one should ever be preventing community growing from happening. It's counter productive, nasty and un necessary.
..while you continue to miss the point that nobody has a right to vandalize property that they don't own. The problem is growing food, not legitimizing vandalism.
@CloudyMrs You're rationalizing mindless blind anger. May cooler heads prevail because compared to the blincly angry, all cool heads are intellectually superior.
@CloudyMrs No rule or law that prohibits vandalism is oppressive. Public Housing communities typically have an area set aside for community gardening anyway. Deal with it.
People who don't like the rules do things in spite of the rules AND change the rules--that's how constructive radicalization works. If you just get angry, you get destructive and nothing changes, which is a good point after all.
@claralistensprechen3rd I don't know how rules of public housing work in the States (?) but I'm pretty sure pouring bleach and thus causing permanent damage to the soil isn't something that can be justified. Very "salt the earth" -strategy.
it kind of went in stages of radicalism for me. The first one was when i was 6 or 7 at school. At recess all the boys were standing around and one was telling a joke. I don't recall the body of the joke, but the punchline was supposed to be that a Black woman couldn't tell the difference between her baby and a pile of shit. I didn't laugh like they did and added that's not funny that's mean and that's the first time they beat me up.
A troll will refuse to engage because they know they cannot (that's the definition, they are only there to provoke, not engage on the facts). If you disagree with her, she will engage.
@kkarhan true, and my understanding is that in this legal framework, to own something means four things, the right to use, the right to earn income, the right to transfer ownership, the right to enforce exclusivity. I’m working to understand the unconscious behavior of dominating people and I think they actually feel like they are transferring the positive value of private property to these “poor people” who they condescend to. There are so many people
It started out as a way for nobles to flex on each other precisely because it is useless. It is so bizarre that so much effort goes into maintaining the damn things.
@Tofu Golem @Jes If you really want to screw things up, plant some japanese knotweed, those fuckers are nearly impossible to get rid of and spread like the plague. Only killing them 8-10 times in a year will truly get them, pulling them up by the roots, or concentrated roundup herbicide a few times which will also make sure nothing grows there for a while.
I got radicalized after becoming disabled 8 years ago. I woke up to all of the injustices in the country where I live. I began to listen to the voices of the next generation demanding their country do for them and not the other way around. I realized the government should be serving us and not we them. I learned what communism and anarchy are, not the spin placed on them. All this radicalized me far left.
Rules prohibiting vandalism is not oppression. Hotheads that foment violence are oppressive. Public housing typically have a community garden space. People looking to legalize vandalism should move to Russia.
I was fully radicalized when I realized that becoming disabled by an accident meant I was going to lose absolutely everything because it takes years to get approved for SSDI.
Then when I finally got SSDI, plus I had a part-time job, and I was told that that income was not enough to qualify to live and even low income housing and I would have to continue to be homeless until I could get to the top of the waitlist for housing assistance, that’s when I decided it needed to all be burnt to the ground.
My total income was about 30% more than it would be if I worked full-time at minimum wage, yet it was not enough to qualify to rent an even low income housing.
Homeless people aren’t living on the street because they don’t want to follow rules, they’re living on the street because nobody’s disability is 3 1/2 times any of the rents. (My brother got the maximum amount of SSDI at the time $2700 so he qualified to live in affordable housing, most don’t though.)
@nuncio @claralistensprechen3rd I just love the hilariously “myopic” sOlUtIoN of growing potatoes above bleach-contaminated ground. To think that “ahaha! I know a weird plant fact! Unleash it and abate yer anger at repressive institutions that crush people’s initiatives at every turn!” is the clever, centrist-always-wins showstopper is just…🤪🤷♀️🤪.
The bleach is completely evil, at that point it's not even "hey uh this doesn't follow our interpretation of regulation X", no just clearly the nastiest "fuck you, die" they felt they could legally get away with.
Given the original poster, it feels like the action was racist even too. I get the sense they wouldn't have gone that far, if we had planted a garden like my mom often wanted to...they usually just hired someone to weedwhack everything and sent the tennant the bill.
I really am a slow learner, and it was so many things. Seeing my friends die in the AIDS years while middle class assholes didn't care. Watching police do a slow drive and stare past a memorial service for a man they fucking killed. Seeing people die because they don't have access to healthcare, seeing what a hopeless fight it has been to change this. Knowing cops slash tents that homeless people save up to buy.
oh, I taught self defense against sexual abuse to little kids for a long time. We. Could. Teach. All. Children. These. Skills.
It would severely limit the number of abused kids. We don't do it because christofascists don't want that kind of useful education, and middle class people are glad for them to look like the bad guys and preserve the status quo. We could be teaching power dynamics and power sharing techniques. We don't want people to know this shit.
@melanie As much as I would love to teach kids that, I would also like to make a world where that is less necessary, but given that most of those molesters are priests, preachers, cops, and other people protected by the law, I guess that's not an option.
the thing is, if the kids are taught to tell someone outside the family about abuse, then none of those powerful people are safe anymore, so yeah, what you said.
hey good morning from here. You're right, I appreciate your taking the time to communicate your understanding of the problem. I sounded like it can easily be fixed. That wasn't accurate. I get frustrated because it is horrible, and powerful people have so much ability to block any improvements. I appreciate your kindness in acknowledging my efforts. Idk, I just do what I can find to do, and action is generally better than when I get frustrated and rant.
Monsanto and other companies “licensing” seeds to farmers and then suing them if they try to grow crops from prior years seeds…. Nothing has made me want to burn a company to the ground more.
Exactly, GMO is the least of our worries, although Genetically modifying food crops to be sterile so they can sell new seeds every year is probably the worst idea on the planet...
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Tofu Golem
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Not the point.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Clara Listensprechen likes this.
lkngrrr
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Clara Listensprechen
in reply to lkngrrr • • •That's not a bad thing--I share zero in common with the myopic.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
lkngrrr
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •anubis2814 likes this.
Tofu Golem
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •@ClaraListensprechen4
There would be no need for workarounds if people weren't deliberately making rules to make things harder for poor people.
You are arguing in favor of systemic oppression.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Clara Listensprechen likes this.
aintasenatorson
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Yet you are arguing as if you have clearly done so.
Apart from the arguments the others have already provided, of course.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to aintasenatorson • • •Their solution is to just get angry, and you're calling THAT a solution. #FAIL
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
aintasenatorson
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Clara Listensprechen
in reply to aintasenatorson • • •Mrs. Cloudy gets it and you're blind.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Tofu Golem
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •You: How DARE those uppity people have a problem with systemic oppression! I'm so superior because I'm not being oppressed! See how superior I am?
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •I see how superior you think you are.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Archive Angel
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •@Clara Listensprechen
@Tofu Golem
Anger is an energy that can be easily (and most often is) misdirected in destructive ways, but can also be channeled toward constructive change.
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Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Archive Angel • • •Anger is easily exploited because it paints, in huge letters, SUCKER on the backs of all who are hotheads.
Tofu Golem
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Right. The problem is that people have a problem with it. Good grief.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Mrs Cloudy
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Mrs Cloudy • • •@CloudyMrs
Mrs. Cloudy, what I said about potatoes makes no sense to people who don't know how to grow potatoes, and I've successfully done this in public housing...yet there are people in this thread that claim I offered no solution at all.
At least you asked for more information, so kudos to you.
Tomatoes can be grown in pots/planters, and in public housing too. You just don't go around digging up lawn that doesn't belong to you, and that escapes this bunch too.
HOW IT's DONE without spending a penny: rake up all fall leaves into the patch where you want to grow them (a 3-foot-high layer at least), let the leaves decompose over winter, then in spring put seed potatoes under the decomposed leaves right on top of the lawn. They'll do the rest and you don't have to do actual digging to harvest them.
To the rest of this gang, you may commence to feel foolish because you were. Carry on.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Mrs Cloudy
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Mrs Cloudy • • •@CloudyMrs
Ya, I'm not talking about farming, kid. This is gardening--for your penance look up "potato growing bags". You stand corrected.
https://youtu.be/malBRMlUM4A?si=cUKDhc8atMqIZ6ux
Planting Potatoes in Grow Bags - Grow Potatoes at home Planting to Harvest - With Results
YouTubeClara Listensprechen likes this.
Mrs Cloudy
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Mrs Cloudy • • •And you happen to be talking to somebody who has already done this successfully. What you need to do is quit being ignorant.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Mrs Cloudy
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Mrs Cloudy • • •Wrong. If the objective is to grow food, you can grow food. But that's not your objective, is it. You wish to legalize vandalism.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Tofu Golem
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •@ClaraListensprechen4 @CloudyMrs
Still missing the point.
Those rules should not exist.
Those rules are evidence of systemic oppression.
The fact that it is possible find a workaround does not make the systemic oppression acceptable.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •@tofugolem@mastodon.socia
@CloudyMrs
..while you continue to miss the point that nobody has a right to vandalize property that they don't own. The problem is growing food, not legitimizing vandalism.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Mrs Cloudy
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Mrs Cloudy • • •@CloudyMrs
Thank you for admitting I am correct about your nefarious objective.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Mrs Cloudy • • •Offering a solution to angry and stupid people never ends well.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Tofu Golem
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •@ClaraListensprechen4 @CloudyMrs
You're rationalizing systemic oppression.
But thanks for letting us know that you feel your acceptance of systemic oppression to be a sign of intellectual superiority.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •You're rationalizing mindless blind anger. May cooler heads prevail because compared to the blincly angry, all cool heads are intellectually superior.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Mrs Cloudy
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Tofu Golem
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •@ClaraListensprechen4 @CloudyMrs
No one gives a fuck about your fucking potatoes.
Rules like that are clear evidence of systemic oppression.
The fact that you think this potato thing makes those rules acceptable says more about you than the people who are arguing with you.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •@CloudyMrs
Thanks for confirming that your only objective is to raise blind anger which will result in the legitimizing of vandalism.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •No rule or law that prohibits vandalism is oppressive. Public Housing communities typically have an area set aside for community gardening anyway. Deal with it.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Import Antigravity
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •Was pouring bleach on the ground WORSE vandalism? Are you actually condemning one crime by supporting a worse crime?
Davie Duck
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tofu Golem • •Clara Listensprechen likes this.
Tofu Golem
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •@claralistensprechen3rd
If the rules prevent people from helping themselves, then those rules exist solely to keep poor people subjugated.
You're completely missing the point and defending the indefensible.
If I weren't a bigger replyguy than you, I would be mad right now, but instead, it's just funny.
Juho Mäntysalo
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •I don't know how rules of public housing work in the States (?) but I'm pretty sure pouring bleach and thus causing permanent damage to the soil isn't something that can be justified. Very "salt the earth" -strategy.
Tofu Golem reshared this.
Princeoflonelymt
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Tofu Golem
in reply to Princeoflonelymt • • •@lonerfanatic
Good for you.
I grew up on American military bases overseas, so I didn't hear jokes like that until I moved back to my own country as a teenager.
That culture shock was not pleasant.
At all.
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Tofu Golem
Unknown parent • • •She's not a troll. She just has weird views.
A troll will refuse to engage because they know they cannot (that's the definition, they are only there to provoke, not engage on the facts). If you disagree with her, she will engage.
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •How is such an act of destruction even legal?
Espechally the use of chemicals to wilt everything???
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Tofu Golem
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • • •Everything done to harm poor people is acceptable to the law because wealthy people decide what the laws are.
anubis2814 likes this.
Clara Listensprechen doesn't like this.
Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •I mean in that case the EPA should've fined the housing authority for illegal deposit if chemicals...
Would not have undone the damage to the planted crops but at least undone the envoirmental contamination...
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Fly-paper-love-maker
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •The Doctor
in reply to Kevin Karhan :verified: • • •Adderall girl grindset (Jes)
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Tofu Golem
in reply to Adderall girl grindset (Jes) • • •You can't feed poor people on mint, though, can you? How much nutritional value does mint even have?
anubis2814 likes this.
anubis2814
in reply to Tofu Golem • •Tofu Golem
in reply to anubis2814 • • •What? Is mint potentially harmful to certain ecosystems?
anubis2814
in reply to Tofu Golem • •Tofu Golem
in reply to anubis2814 • • •@anubis2814 @Jessica
Grass is the most useless crop in existence.
It started out as a way for nobles to flex on each other precisely because it is useless. It is so bizarre that so much effort goes into maintaining the damn things.
anubis2814 likes this.
anubis2814
in reply to Tofu Golem • — (Pennsylvania, PA) •bookstodon group reshared this.
Doc Edward Morbius ⭕
in reply to Adderall girl grindset (Jes) • • •@Jessica Bamboo and ivy.
@tofugolem
Adderall girl grindset (Jes)
in reply to Doc Edward Morbius ⭕ • • •resilience by combo
Doc Edward Morbius ⭕
in reply to Adderall girl grindset (Jes) • • •@Jessica Kudzu and water hyacinth for good measure.
@tofugolem
House Panther :verified:
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •anubis2814 likes this.
Tip
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/09/why-a-garden-was-removed-from-public-housing/
Why A Garden Was Removed From Public Housing
Hakim Ouansafi (Honolulu Civil Beat)anubis2814 reshared this.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Tip • •reshared this
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DirtFarmer WithARealJob
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Kim Possible
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •very powerful statement.
Her novel LIBERTIE is also very good. @bookstodon
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Maggie Maybe
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •I was fully radicalized when I realized that becoming disabled by an accident meant I was going to lose absolutely everything because it takes years to get approved for SSDI.
Then when I finally got SSDI, plus I had a part-time job, and I was told that that income was not enough to qualify to live and even low income housing and I would have to continue to be homeless until I could get to the top of the waitlist for housing assistance, that’s when I decided it needed to all be burnt to the ground.
My total income was about 30% more than it would be if I worked full-time at minimum wage, yet it was not enough to qualify to rent an even low income housing.
Homeless people aren’t living on the street because they don’t want to follow rules, they’re living on the street because nobody’s disability is 3 1/2 times any of the rents. (My brother got the maximum amount of SSDI at the time $2700 so he qualified to live in affordable housing, most don’t though.)
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reshared this
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Bryan H. Rombough
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •My Mother’s Garden
web.archive.orgFuture Hellfutures🏴💀🦇
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •piegames
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Andrea, Transbian Casanova :neurodiversity: :transgender_symbol:
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •The bleach is completely evil, at that point it's not even "hey uh this doesn't follow our interpretation of regulation X", no just clearly the nastiest "fuck you, die" they felt they could legally get away with.
Given the original poster, it feels like the action was racist even too. I get the sense they wouldn't have gone that far, if we had planted a garden like my mom often wanted to...they usually just hired someone to weedwhack everything and sent the tennant the bill.
slow learner, deep feeler
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •slow learner, deep feeler
in reply to slow learner, deep feeler • • •oh, I taught self defense against sexual abuse to little kids for a long time. We. Could. Teach. All. Children. These. Skills.
It would severely limit the number of abused kids. We don't do it because christofascists don't want that kind of useful education, and middle class people are glad for them to look like the bad guys and preserve the status quo. We could be teaching power dynamics and power sharing techniques. We don't want people to know this shit.
Tofu Golem
in reply to slow learner, deep feeler • • •As much as I would love to teach kids that, I would also like to make a world where that is less necessary, but given that most of those molesters are priests, preachers, cops, and other people protected by the law, I guess that's not an option.
slow learner, deep feeler
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Tofu Golem
in reply to slow learner, deep feeler • • •Unfortunately, telling the relevant authorities isn't enough in a lot of cases. Not when the system is designed to shield them from consequences.
I'm not trying to discourage what you're doing. Children speaking up is better than not speaking up. I'm mad about the injustice of our system.
slow learner, deep feeler
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Tofu Golem
in reply to slow learner, deep feeler • • •Keep going!
phenaproxima
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Feeding the Shredder
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Tofu Golem
in reply to Feeding the Shredder • • •I get annoyed by all the focus on GMO when this is what people would be angry about.
Feeding the Shredder
in reply to Tofu Golem • • •Tofu Golem
Unknown parent • • •No idea.