If I wanted to avoid escalation by militant Islam in the #middleeast, I wouldn’t start by making a quarter million able-bodied men homeless & motherless with nothing to lose.
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If I wanted to avoid escalation by militant Islam in the #middleeast, I wouldn’t start by making a quarter million able-bodied men homeless & motherless with nothing to lose.
Clara Listensprechen likes this.
reshared this
David Koff (he/him)
in reply to Toni Aittoniemi • • •Honest question: what would you do to rescue your men, women, and children who’d been taken hostage? Or to prevent another brutal slaughter of 1200 of your citizens by a known terrorist org that lives next door.
Do you believe that being reasonable with a #terrorst org that openly calls for your complete eradication is the solution?
What if it were your children that had been slaughtered or kidnapped?
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Toni Aittoniemi
in reply to David Koff (he/him) • • •@thetechtutor How well did that go in Northern Ireland?
History seems to point to two answers:
In modern times terrorist organisations are almost never defeated by military actions, but by political solutions that offer the people a better alternative. The people know these are madmen, but the madman is the only one speaking for them so there’s no choice.
In old times brutal empires took hundreds of years to crush repeating rebellions and eradicated whole ethnic groups in the process.
David Koff (he/him)
in reply to Toni Aittoniemi • • •Three different peace plans were offered to Yasser #Arafat and to those #Palestinian leaders who came after him. One of those, broken by #Clinton , gave the Palestinians about 95% of everything they’d requested.
They walked away.
So, if you have them, please share your specific ideas for this centuries old feud between two closely related tribes.
Toni Aittoniemi
in reply to David Koff (he/him) • • •@thetechtutor 1933, british promised 33% of Palestine to the zionist movement. 1948 they were given 56%. By 1967 they controlled 79%.
Yet in 1918, a mere 6% of Palestine was Jewish.
All this in about 100 years. It is not ancient, it is recent. Of course they’re going to want their homes back. Many still carry the keys to homes that were taken by force from them.
You talk of 1200 people dead. You know what that is to Palestinians right now? The number of people dying in Gaza in a week.
David Koff (he/him)
in reply to Toni Aittoniemi • • •I see you’ve avoided answering my question about possible solutions and have instead discussed only what you’ve decided the problem is.
With utter disregard for any historical fact, I should note. Here are links to timelines to actual data:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_peace_process
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine
This is when I know I’m not dealing with a good faith partner in discussion and debate but someone who just wants to demonize #jews and #israel
League of Nations Mandate in the Middle East under British administration (1920-1948)
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Toni Aittoniemi • •Honest answer to
I'd begin by refraining from stealing their land burning their crops bulldozing their houses and olive trees as if their land belonged to me when it doesn't. Not stealing what belongs to your neighbor is a good start.
Toni Aittoniemi
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •I keep hearing this number, 1200 connected to brutal slaughter.
Let’s take a look at that number:
32000 Palestinians dead since Oct 7th,
which makes for 5333,3 dead per month,
1333,3 dead Palestinians PER WEEK, and going on…
I wish people would stop pretending nothing has happened since Oct 7th?
And you’re right. In modern times terrorist organisations have been defeated by cutting into their support, not military action that increases it.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Toni Aittoniemi • •Toni Aittoniemi likes this.
Toni Aittoniemi
in reply to Clara Listensprechen • • •@claralistensprechen3rd @claralistensprechen3rd I think the numbers matter more than who started it.
Otherwise the value of a human life depends on who started it.
Clara Listensprechen
in reply to Toni Aittoniemi • •Honest answer to the question
Release their children from jail and it won't happen. The police that arrested and jailed their children kidnapped children first.
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