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disappointed that I'm seeing more and more non-captioned images cross my TL. I understand and respect that there are a lot of new people around and that means the culture will shift and change with them, but this is one aspect of fedi culture that I would really like to preserve.

so, if you are able, please please please caption your images!
in reply to duncan

One thing I'm hoping to do in my Friendica mobile client is making that process extremely easy. Right now picture embedding on Friendica is essentially BBcode markup that is pretty verbose at that so very easy to bork everything up trying to manually add the alt-text to it.
in reply to Hank G ☑️

@hankg I love it, anything to make accessibility more, well, accessible is a good thing in my book
in reply to Andrew Allen

@themrallen It depends a little on the interface you're using.

In the web interface, after it has finished uploading an image, it will show the image below the content box, and overlayed on the bottom of the image it will say "(i) No description added". If you click that, you can add your descriptive text (and choose where the thumbnail is cropped).

It should be similar in other apps, but the wording and placement may vary.
in reply to duncan

you can teach newbies how to caption the images
in reply to Marsha Maung

@marshamaung true, I just did have to show someone how, so I boosted that post so hopefully others can see it
Unknown parent

duncan

Content warning: Where to click

Unknown parent

duncan
@carlharnryd ah, no, you added a CW (Content Warning). I'm talking about adding alt-text to any images posted.

When you upload an image, most clients will give you the option to add a "caption" to it so that screen readers & other accesibility tools can use that for visually impaired people.

On the mastodon web UI, it looks something like this (screenshots attached). You would upload the picture and then click "Edit", which will bring up the window in the second screenshot. After you publish the post, if you hover over the image with your mouse, you will see a tooltip come up with your alt-text.

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in reply to duncan

like "this is boring shite do not open", whats wrong with people choosing what to stop and look at themselves, why are content warnings necessary.....obviously Im missing the point and the mastadon pc police will kill me or maybe I'm just a bit stupid.
in reply to Yvonne Lavelle

@Yvonne for one thing, the post you are responding to is nothing to do with content warnings but rather alt-text for images.

for another thing, CWs are incredibly useful, much digital ink has been spilled on here about them and I'd rather not get into a big argument about them. If you don't want to use them, that is your choice, but just be aware that posting specific things without a CW could have ramifications.

If you don't want to have to open CWs constantly, there is a setting in your preferences that looks like this, that will change the posts you see to be always opened
in reply to Yvonne Lavelle

@Yvonne of course, no worries. I understand CWs take a bit getting used to but I hope you'll come around on them eventually
in reply to duncan

and don’t just do it begrudgingly. You can put similar effort into your alt-text as you did into your image. If you’re sharing a photo you think is beautiful, make the description just as beautiful. If you thought it was worth sharing, make it as worthy for those who can only read about.
in reply to S. Eamon K.

@Seamonk I agree with you, one should make an effort to be as descriptive as possible, but at the end of the day I'm of the opinion that any caption is better than no caption. Sometimes people don't have the spoons to craft a beautiful description and just want to post an image, and raising the bar to "oh and you also have to write a completely separate post describing the image" could cause that image to not be posted at all. I know the line here is murky and there's no hard-and-fast rule but balancing access needs is just something we need to keep in mind
in reply to duncan

yah. If it’s just a pic of the doggo you don’t need to go all Yeats. Just keep the perspective.
in reply to duncan

@corbin For my own edification (and others that'll probably see this) - the advice I saw recently is that Mastodon is being crushed at the moment, and it's better to *link* images than *post* them. Is there a way to caption a linked image that I missed in all my newness?
in reply to duncan

From some of the responses it seems like some people think this is referencing Content Warnings and so I just need to say, CWs are good but I was specifically talking about alt-text for images, not CWs. Here's a reply I made that shows exactly what I'm talking about: https://rage.love/@balrogboogie/109365566246849157
in reply to duncan

I wish images came with descriptions. I've found myself posting the same image several times (the one explaining which posts show up in which timeline) and every time I had to write a description all over again.
in reply to Aron Fischer

@cobordism i've heard it's possible to embed descriptions in EXIF data? I don't know how true or widely supported that is, but it would be nice if you could add the description there and have mastodon extract the description from there
in reply to duncan

Or, maybe, digital image formats should come with embedded description formats to begin with!
in reply to Aron Fischer

@cobordism but that would require tech bros to think about and prioritize accessibility, and we can't have that now /s
in reply to duncan

There's also a bot someone made that will message you if you forget to add alt text: @PleaseCaption

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in reply to duncan

I've been trying to figure out how that works on here.
in reply to Daniel Shinkle

@Danl here's a small example I posted for someone else earlier, note that my screenshots are for the mastodon web UI and might be different for different clients https://rage.love/@balrogboogie/109365793671150872
in reply to duncan

I should have easily found that. But I think I can do better going forward. Thanks
in reply to duncan

it took me a couple of posts to figure out how to add the text. Keep reminding folk, us new users will get there!
in reply to duncan

Duncan when I see an image I would like to boost which has no alt text, I reply and ask the author, very politely, if they’d please conside adding alt text in the future. Sometimes I start my reply with “alt text for our visually-disabled friends: [description of image]” so the author sees an example of how easy it is.

I figure the worst that can happen is they’ll mute me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
in reply to duncan

now imagine if the new fancy edit feature actually allowed people to edit or add image descriptions.. It would've made this do much easier right now
in reply to maloki 🍍:ghostbat:

@maloki oh can you not add image descriptions when editing posts? that's disappointing, given that you can do that when you delete+redraft
in reply to duncan

I have a captioned image on my TL if you’d like to read about shiny banana bread.

We do captioned images on @EqualRightsAdvocates and @EqualPayToday if you’re interested in issues pertaining to #genderjustice and want to give us a follow!
in reply to duncan

There’s good news here: I don’t think this is a cultural failing or an indication that new users don’t care. This is a UX failure, and failures like this happen when software design teams do not hire diversely enough. The inclusion of deaf, blind, and movement impaired staff is crucial in modern UX. Designers and implementers (like myself) cannot expect every user in every emotional context and of every neurotype to remember to take a non-obvious action under high cognitive load.
in reply to Joe Howes

Metatext, for example, does not remind the user to caption photos. If it did, most users would caption every time (users tend to be more empathetic than not). A UX design team could reasonably assume that someone posting from home in peace and silence would likely remember to caption, but someone posting from their raft trip down the Kaituna river May be under significant cognitive load and could use a UI assist.
in reply to Joe Howes

It is unfair for a UX designer to expect users under high cognitive load to remember something non-obvious in their context. This is a wonderful example why UX teams need to hire as diversely as possible. For now, apologies for the photos I have shared that I failed to caption. I will try to do better, and I implore Mastodon UX builders to do right by their blind and deaf users. A caption reminder would be a welcome addition to the Metatext experience.
in reply to Joe Howes

@pal_joey I agree in principle, however there aren't really teams of hired people developing fediverse software. Open-source software has had a problem with accessibility for pretty much it's entire existence, that's a well-known though unfortunate problem. UX can certainly help, but until FOSS in general is better at including accessibility as a priority, setting and doing our best to enforce cultural norms is what we have
in reply to duncan

I will consider reaching out to the Metatext team and contributing. After this exchange I'm guessing my brain will have much better recall captioning when posting from the app. Will do my best!

Kia ora and thanks for this exchange.
in reply to duncan

i did caption my (so far) solitary image - or so i thought, but then i couldn’t see my own caption. i’ll reproduce it here: couldn’t find last one, this is a hot pink peony almost in full bloom - i put the caption where i *think* it’s supposed to go. pls critique, i wanna get it right!
in reply to duncan

thanks! i still can’t see the caption i typed onto the actual image, myself, but as long as i’m doing it right i’m fine!
in reply to duncan

The Mastodon software should really increase the friction for posting images without captions and decrease the friction for adding caption. Prompt by default rather than having to discover the way to add.
in reply to duncan

Everytime I see an image I want to boost but doesn't have an alt text (or proper CW if needed), I paste my text to the person about alt text.
It's long because I try to personalise, but I hope it works ...
in reply to duncan

I had to learn. Text description is an amazing feature that I hadn’t known about until reminded. At 1500 characters there’s a lot of scope to be creative with it.
Unknown parent

duncan
@norcalgrandma don't be afraid to ask! I sent some instuctions to someone earlier on how to do this through the mastodon web interface. if you use an app the instructions might be a bit different. here's the instructions: https://rage.love/@balrogboogie/109365566246849157

feel free to ask if you have any more questions!
in reply to duncan

I like to use alt-text to provide supplemental info that wouldn't necessarily fit in the post itself, like explaining the context of a meme that is needed for it to make sense.

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in reply to duncan

I’m almost for shadowbanning images without alt text, but that’s kinda a bad rabbithole and also some images just can’t be captioned! 😬
in reply to duncan

I think it's an UX issue. on Twitter it was really easy and nice adding alt (even felt part of the "process") and here it's a bit less intuitive.
in reply to duncan

This is good, and something I could improve on. If it is an established norm here, then why isn't it functionality to put some friction in posting if an image with no description is present?
in reply to Evelyn :lesbian_heart:

@EvieAlways there are a few reasons for that, I think. one is that masto's main dev, Eugen, is a bit of a techbro and doesn't always have accessibility as a priority.

but also, we have to balance access needs. there are a lot of chronically ill people on here, and sometimes adding a caption to a post that already took spoons to create is too much. one of the norms we've established here is helping people tag images when they ask for help, and putting some technical barrier in place to prevent images without captions means that we'll see fewer posts from people without the spoons to do so
in reply to duncan

Yeah, I've noticed that too... And I'm less inclined now to boost those, because I want things I boost to be accessible to everyone!
in reply to duncan

If you aren't sure what to do to make good #AltText, this is a thread I wrote that should help.
https://mindly.social/@JesseF8693/109363278596870959
If you like what's written there, please boost it. Thank you.
in reply to duncan

Hard to get the gist. Im finally settling in slightly. But the word lingo is new and confusing. Also contradictory messages. Some are saying don't CW about simple images. But in saying that, I hear ya.

Just a perspective from a newbie.
in reply to duncan

@balrogboogie. thank you. good to know.. many of us are on the learning curve
in reply to duncan

@naturesketchbook I made a tweak to the CSS on my own instance to highlight how many images aren't described. It may help people get a feeling for the scope of the issue. Eg, see: https://m.phase.org/public

Copyable code & details at https://gist.github.com/parsingphase/d974aca8c33fe0fed18e15735c9b0e5a
in reply to duncan

I would like to add to this thread that a good image description can also be very enjoyable for sighted people. It can give just that bit more insight what the OP feels is important about the image (tho obviously wouldn't want to add comments that weren't in the post).
The caption doesn't have to be long. When you don't have the spoons for it then something concise is fine, like: a cat; a dog. Or if you can do more: a fluffy cat; a dog lying on sofa. That kind of thing.
in reply to duncan

I captioned my recent post and wanted to check if it had worked, but I can’t figure out where to see it after posting and I can’t find an answer for this anywhere 🥲 Any help appreciated!